God's spirit is the power that drives every living cell. This is why scientists are unable to truly invent/make/create or even reverse engineer life. They have the mechanics but not the driving force, God's spirit.
Hold Me-Thrill Me
JoinedPosts by Hold Me-Thrill Me
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73
God's Spirit
by Hold Me-Thrill Me inwhat is god's spirit?
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i ask this of those who believe in god.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
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73
God's Spirit
by Hold Me-Thrill Me inwhat is god's spirit?
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i ask this of those who believe in god.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
What is God's spirit?
I ask this of those who believe in God.
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27
To My Generation: Jehovah's Witnesses of the Vietnam War Era
by Hold Me-Thrill Me into my generation: jehovah's witnesses of the vietnam war era .
if you were a young brother in the late 60's you then remember the burden of the draft and the prospect of going to jail for refusing on religious grounds to be called up.
in those days we were taught that to do community service was conscientiously the same as joining the military and so we were told to refuse such exemptions.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Blondie, thanks for posting the 1996 article. In 1998 they opened their fly and exposed the fact that many of us were not too pleased with them. Who knows how many letters they got regarding the 1996 article but it must have been plenty for them to print the article below. Also, it should be noted that brothers in other countries were also going to jail. A letter was printed during this same time from a brother I believe from Greece who expressed his appreciation for the changes in civilian service.The Watchtower's extreme positions on this and other things like blood, shunning of relatives etc. have negatively effected many lives, if not ruined them or even killed them.
(emphasis mine below)
*** w98 8/15 p. 17 Strengthening Our Confidence in God’s Righteousness ***
Feelings of Having Suffered Needlessly
6 In the past, some Witnesses have suffered for refusing to share in an activity that their conscience now might permit. For example, this might have been their choice years ago as to certain types of civilian service. A brother might now feel that he could conscientiously perform such without overstepping his Christian neutrality regarding the present system of things.(It was NOT our choice. They forced the choice on us.)
7 Was it unrighteous on Jehovah’s part to allow him to suffer for rejecting what he now might do without consequences? Most who have had that experience would not think so. Rather, they rejoice that they had the opportunity of demonstrating publicly and clearly that they were determined to be firm on the issue of universal sovereignty. (Compare Job 27:5.) What reason could anyone have to regret having followed his conscience in taking a firm stand for Jehovah? By loyally upholding Christian principles as they understood them or by responding to the proddings of conscience, they proved worthy of Jehovah’s friendship. Certainly, it is wise to avoid a course that would disturb one’s conscience or that would likely cause others to be stumbled. We can think in this regard of the example that the apostle Paul set.—1 Corinthians 8:12, 13; 10:31-33.( Please note, first they blame God. "Without consequences" means without consequences from the Watchtower. "Christian principles as they understood them" is, pardon the expression bullshit. We understood ONLY what we were told to understand. What follows is an even greater kick in the pants.)
8 In order to please Jehovah, the Jews were required to obey the Ten Commandments and also a wide variety of about 600 additional laws. Later, under the Christian arrangement, obedience to these laws as such was no longer a requirement for serving Jehovah, not even for fleshly Jews. The laws no longer binding included those dealing with circumcision, keeping the Sabbath, offering animal sacrifices, and observing certain dietary restrictions. (1 Corinthians 7:19; 10:25; Colossians 2:16, 17; Hebrews 10:1, 11-14) Jews—including the apostles—who became Christians were released from the obligation to keep laws that they were required to obey when they were under the Law covenant. Did they complain that God’s arrangement was unrighteous in having formerly required of them things that were no longer necessary? No, they rejoiced in the broadened understanding of Jehovah’s purposes.—Acts 16:4, 5.(Please note, they are comparing the changes they make to the change in worship made in the Bible. I don't why I did not explode then but I was too blinded.)
9 In modern times, there have been some Witnesses who were very strict in their view of what they would or would not do. For that reason they suffered more than others. Later, increased knowledge helped them to expand their view of matters. But they have no reason to regret having earlier acted in harmony with their conscience, even when this possibly brought extra suffering. It truly is commendable that they demonstrated their willingness to suffer in faithfulness to Jehovah, to “do all things for the sake of the good news.” Jehovah blesses that kind of godly devotion. (1 Corinthians 9:23; Hebrews 6:10) The apostle Peter wrote with insight: “If, when you are doing good and you suffer, you endure it, this is a thing agreeable with God.”—1 Peter 2:20.(We were not strict. We simply did as we were told. Either we tried to get a minister classification or we went to prison. I was in the northeast at the time and some of us did go prison because we were told that was the only Christian choice to make. If we joined the military quiet disfellowshiping was the result. "Increased knowledge" was the 1996 Watchtower article.)
Thanks again Blondie for bringing up the 1996 article.
Frank
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27
To My Generation: Jehovah's Witnesses of the Vietnam War Era
by Hold Me-Thrill Me into my generation: jehovah's witnesses of the vietnam war era .
if you were a young brother in the late 60's you then remember the burden of the draft and the prospect of going to jail for refusing on religious grounds to be called up.
in those days we were taught that to do community service was conscientiously the same as joining the military and so we were told to refuse such exemptions.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
To my generation: Jehovah's Witnesses of the Vietnam War era
If you were a young brother in the late 60's you then remember the burden of the draft and the prospect of going to jail for refusing on religious grounds to be called up. In those days we were taught that to do community service was conscientiously the same as joining the military and so we were told to refuse such exemptions. Many of us had the choice to either pioneer and hope to get the minister exemption or go to jail.
Do you remember how it was? Do you remember the monthly pressure to get our hours and mags in during the Vietnam War days? Do you remember the letters reminding us that if we did not keep our hours up we could lose our exemption. Month by month- keeping out of jail was the driving force which kept us going in the rain, the snow and even to fudging it at times. Were you one of those who went to jail for your conscientious refusal to do community service because that was what we were taught to do?
Then in the 1990's all of sudden we are told Jehovah had made a change. Brothers could now do community service and avoid jail. Was this really from Jehovah or was the whole anti community service policy really from Brooklyn to begin with? Did you wonder about that when that change was made? I did.
Do you remember the six month study program during the early 70's? Were you ever told by the Circuit Overseer to drop a study because they had not made enough progress after 8 or 9 months? I was. It was one of the hardest things I had to do but you know what, I did it. I did it because I trusted. I gave up on someone who wanted to learn but were not going fast enough because the Society and the CO said so. Because 1975 was on its way.
Did you believe 1975? Did you put off some things? Perhaps marriage or having children? Did you give up a home and move to where the need was great? Did you tell your wife that the end was near and having children was not a good idea? I did. Did you strive your best to do everything you could. To serve as a servant, an elder, to pioneer, to do all the grunt work handed you. To disfellowship, to reprove, to do what was required even though there was something that kept nagging in your heart. Even though Jesus' words kept nagging. But no, this is God's organization what we do we do for Jehovah and for the benefit of our brothers and sisters. I see their faces to this day. The face of the sister disfellowshiped because she had again taken up the habit she had tried so hard to quit, smoking. I helped to destroy her.
Did you wonder as I did how long the 1914 generation would last? They kept dying and we kept waiting. Then they died some more and we waited some more. Then the big change. In the mid 1990's we no longer had to wait for the 1914 generation to die because they already had. I would put a (LOL) here if it were not for the fact that my stomach turned over that day and the beginning of a hint of "what is going on?" started in me. But I let it go, I moved on. Too much to do, trust in Jehovah, trust in the Organization. But now WE are dying! Seems like a joke doesn't it? But it's no joke.
Did Jehovah teach us that the 1914 generation would not die or was that from men?
Did Jehovah say we should disfellowship a young woman for smoking or was that from men?
Did Jehovah say we should not do community service or was that from men?
Did Jehovah teach us to get ready for 1975 or was that from men?
Did Jehovah teach that we should engage in studying with new ones for six months and then move on if there is not enough quick progress or was that from men?
What else is from men? Spend a little time each day reading the Gospels and compare what Jesus teaches with what we hear at the Kingdom Hall. Jesus ate with practicing sinners of his own religion- think about it.
Lastly:
I have come to a precipice. At this time of my life when I do not know how many more years I have to truly use my mind and body in a useful way I am at a crossroad. I do love Jehovah God, I do love Jesus Christ, I do love my brothers and sisters in the Organization, I do love my neighbor. But I find myself unable to understand the present Governing Body. I'm nobody, I do not have to understand it's true, but at this time in my life I feel I must understand just where are we headed? Who is truly in charge? Jehovah and Jesus? Or men?
I remember the joy of the International Convention in Yankee Stadium. Those of us who volunteered had it the best I think. The air felt electric. What, as we used to think,- a blast! Single good looking sisters everywhere, good food, good work and hope. Hope. To be young and have hope. Nothing like it.
Dear brothers and sisters of my generation, the generation who as children came out of the 40's and 50's into a new world of sorts, and who may be reading this-
I am going to continue attending meetings and continue being as active as I have been. I am going to the summer Convention, I will wait for the Annual Meeting, I will wait for the New Year and the publications that come with it and I will wait for the 2016 Memorial. I will wait on Jehovah and if by then repentance has not been declared, repentance for the trampling on God and his name, for trampling on Jesus, for not teaching Christlike love for all, for never saying "we made a mistake"- then in the Spring of 2016 I am leaving my religion.
I am not leaving Jehovah and his son. I am leaving the following of men. I was baptized not in the name of the Organization or of men. I am a follower of Jesus Christ who after the 2016 Memorial will be free to follow him alone.
I ask my generation, the generation that was not going to grow old- Did you trust Nathan Knorr? Do you today trust Anthony Morris as well as you trusted Knorr? If not, why not?
A negative answer to that question should provoke deep thought.
May Jehovah and Jesus Christ be with all of you,
Frank, an old man who knows who my Father is.
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28
Can This Be True?
by Hold Me-Thrill Me ini was very tired today, still am.
age is getting to me.
that video will be shown to millions of parents around the world.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
My sincere and deep appreciation to all who commented on this thread. I do not like where I am at the moment but hey one is never too old to learn and if need be change. I hope.
I made a decision this afternoon which happened to be one of the best afternoons I've had in a long time. My concern right now is for those among my generation the over 70 year olds who may be lurking here. We are the ones who remember and who in my opinion may be having a rather hard time because so little time is left for us to redirect or to truly decide what is best for ourselves and those we love.
I'm going to post something to my generation.
How I do love all those here who have shown love and kindness to those like me when we did not always agree or were a bit over the top in a religious sense.
Love and respect to all,
Frank
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Can This Be True?
by Hold Me-Thrill Me ini was very tired today, still am.
age is getting to me.
that video will be shown to millions of parents around the world.
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
I was very tired today, still am. Age is getting to me. Well, when I'm tired I spend my time watching whatever I find interesting on the net, news etc. Then in some self-hate moment I went back to JW Broadcasting and watched a few videos there. I say self-hate because it hurts, sometimes it hurts too much.
At any rate, afterwards I'm thinking about the video you all were talking about here the one which will be shown at the Regional Convention where a child puts money into the contribution box rather than buy an ice cream with it. I started giving thought to that and could not stop thinking about it and then it hit me.
That video will be shown to millions of parents around the world. Millions of parents with millions of small children and grandchildren. What will the parents and children want to do after watching that video. It would be perfectly natural for children who have already come to love Caleb and Sophia, to want to put something in box in imitation of them. And the parents and grandparents will naturally feel pride, and be encouraged by the child, to give them a dollar or a coin to put in the box. In fact why not put in a dollar or coin every day of the Convention?
How much money even in coins or single dollars will have then be put in the contribution boxes by millions of children wanting to imitate Sophia? And this at conventions all around the world.
So my thinking kept on. Could it be that's why this video's release was kept for the Conventions around the world and was not first released on the JW dot org site? Could this actually be the plan? To get millions of children to put money in the boxes at the Conventions around the world? Can they really be that calculating, that cold, that evil?
Can this be true?
As I said I'm very tired. Not just physically but emotionally too. I'm ready to take a good look at my life and my religion. I'm ready to let the rain sink in. Ready to allow all this really soak in my bones and then see how it feels. Do I stay? Stay in my religion? Do I run for the door? Do I have the energy to continue to try and help the few I can at the KH or do I run away in horror at what is going on? They will see it in my face at the next meeting. I know it.
I have truly enjoyed my time here. I hope I've not hurt anyone's feelings or given cause for complaint if so I sincerely apologize. We may never meet but I sure hope you all will be happy and satisfied in this life and though many here do not believe I do hope to have a laugh and glass of wine with all here in the next life.
I'm not saying goodbye, I'm just not sure where I go from here and what I will do. I love my books perhaps I'll spend time getting to know them again or anew.
With much love and respect to all here,
Frank
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The Greatest Teacher
by Harold OMorning inif jesus was really viewed as the greatest teacher who ever lived...........why would a 3rd party need to explain his teaching?
discuss
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Perhaps, but then I do not seek relevance. Neither do I seek to answer all questions which are thrown about to destroy the faith of lurkers.
Edited to add: For me it is quite late. Have a good night Viviane.
Frank
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Jonathan Drake,
The Ten Commandments say nothing about stoning, they have no punishments. This is what makes them eternal. The Law of Moses was written for the time they lived in not for all time. This is why Jesus could generally abrogate them while keeping the Ten Commandments in place.
Jesus taught repentance and forgiveness not stoning. It makes perfect sense then that the Ten Commandments being eternal do not include stoning.
The Ten Commandments bar the making of images something quite common at the time. For those of us who find something good in them there is good. For those who wish to find fault there is fault. Let us all find what we find.
Respectfully,
Frank
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
EA916,
I am a follower of Christ in association with Jehovah's Witnesses. Recognizing that the religion I associate with is very much like the first century Jews during Jesus' day. Rule keeping and with a strong tendency toward thinking too much of itself. A tendency common among all men but it should not be among those who claim to be disciples of Christ.
I do not believe in the Trinity. I believe in a restored earth. I believe in a resurrection to heaven and to earth. I believe we are living in momentous times. I do not believe in an invisible presence. I believe Christ's return will be obvious to all and is not too distant.
Frank
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Hold Me-Thrill Me
Viviane: However, you said "I believe the law of God is eternal"
NO! You are misquoting me. Go back and read it again. I said: I believe the Ten Commandments are eternal.
The discussion is the Ten Commandments and I kept to it. You are reading what YOU want to see not what is actually on the page.
Read more carefully.